We call it Shut Up Grease in our office and it lives up to that name. Dry or Loctite or grease or copper paste? We use aerospace grade steel paired with our own proprietary lubricant to bring you bearings that provide industry leading performance at a fraction of the cost. But hey if you're racing for money, have the budget, and a race team to continually maintain your bearings every 1,000km, by all means go ceramic. Head on over and find the Hawk Racing bottom bracket for your bike. I dislike their marketing perspective. In a BB30 or Press Fit 30 setup, the distance between the bearing seats is around 68mm. The difference between the top end BBs can be measured in hundredths of watts - the BB is not where you get major drivechain efficiency losses, and even cheap BBs add less than a watt of drag to the system. If you head over to friction-facts.com you can see data on various bottom brackets. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. If, by fine, we mean a crank can rotate in it. Go ride it. I asked them how they could claim they were the fastest, they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. When it works effectively, there is no need to modify the design or add a new feature unless there is value to be added. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to BikeRumor's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). Whilst my grease of choice features Teflon in its composition, I believe Teflon tape reduces the chances of creaks and other noises emanating from the bottom bracket shell. Their smooth surface and uniform size distributes the load evenly across the balls and doesnt cause added friction from imperfections on the surface of the balls. I dont massively overtighten, but enough to ensure those bottom bracket cups arent loosening off. Ok Fishes, here is the interview we were all waiting for!! Say threaded together vs regular pressfit. Now that we know the 2023 IRONMAN WC is in Nice for men and Kona for women, reversed venues next year, which venue will you hope to qualify for? Check out our blog on that one here. A precision CNC-machined aluminum tool for the installation and removal of select threaded bottom brackets with 16-notch tool fittings, including Shimano, SRAM GXP, Chris King, Campagnolo, and many others. Performance ceramic bearings have an enemy: grease. there are other reasons such as loading cycles of a crank compared to a fork but the main difference is the above as outlined. Hit the link at the bottom of the post to submit your own question. less watts? Doesn't BBinfinite use the sale Klber grease on all their bearings? Solutions. Rankings. When you keep surfing on this site you agree with the cookie usage. Any feedback on C-Bear vs. Kogel? The smoother, harder surfaces of ceramic bearings do allow them to run dry when used in the right conditions. Hambini Racing BSA Bottom Bracket Shimano Crankset. I will repost if I get one installed. For the industrial applications they are designed for, this cost is offset by the increased lifespan and significant improvement in performance they provide. I also asked for insight into the manufacturing process behind ceramic bearings to give some context into how they are made and what leads to any performance claims. Pictured above is the review sample I received from Kogel Bearings, sometime around April / May of 2018. Your contributors are as follows: Why do press fit bottom brackets always end up creaking so bad? Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket shell threads (drive and non-drive side). Never tried C Bear. For sure. As a habit, Kogel ship a GXP washer with every 24mm spindle bottom bracket, but remains unused for cranksets with straight spindles by Shimano, Rotor, FSA, etc. Over time, these pits lead to a rough, noisy pedal stroke. This difference between the Ceramic and Steel, with no further explanation, can lead to a quick, but inaccurate, conclusion that ceramic bearings generally exhibit less friction than steel bearings. Above, this is what you see when the box is popped open. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! I'll do that, since I ordered the Klber syringe along with the BBs. We have seen production frames that are off by 0.50mm. I saw some info, that said the BBInfinite demo is a bit misleading, because under load the bearings perform differently and not that much better than the Shimano BB72-41B (?) What you should be concerned with isnt the potential for creaking but rather how poorly that multi-piece press-fit bottom bracket is performing, sapping wattage and making you work more for less. Already have an account with us? See how BBinfinite makes you faster Play Video Where Speed is born Made in USA - Factory Tour Play Video Get steel bearings not ceramic. I rode the CeramicSpeed bb for a few thousand miles and it just never impressed me. If you do you will fall into the trap of target fixation. Ard had three goals with Kogel Bearings: Manufacturers havent made this a joyous task, as for a while there, a new bottom bracket standard was invented on an almost weekly basis. But the claimed non-corrosive and long-lasting properties of ceramic bearings are whats important, potentially helping to reduce the frequency of headset servicing and ultimately replacement. I generally use Finish Line Premium greasefor alloy or steel shells. More competitive pricing and top quality. This means high-quality products that actually improve performance for cyclists, but as well a company that people like to connect with. Had one installed and no problems so far. Threaded bbs just arent a silver bullet. Our golden rule is: if you claim your fifth warranty and the neighbor shop has not claimed any, thats when we start asking our very few questions. I've installed a couple and I was reasonably impressed. Also, while ceramic bearings do offer a weight saving (they can weigh 50 per cent less than steel bearings), the reduction in weight is almost completely negligible when viewed in the context of a whole bike. I am not so much concerned with long term reliability, but rather performance. For these reasons, frame builders will use a press fit bottom bracket to make a lighter, cheaper frame. But, are they really all theyre cut out to be? Pair this with a maintenance free, sealed bearing structure and you have the perfect upgrade to take you to the next level of cycling, whatever that may be. Sign up to receive Bikerumor content direct to your inbox. On a side note: the bottom bracket takes blame for a whole range of creaks that are not the bottom bracket: crank arms, chain ring bolts, shoe cleats, a loose thru-axle, suspension pivots, all sound very similar to a creaky bottom bracket. And finally: use our Aqua Proof Paste! If you have a creaking problem, you should inspect the box structure of the arms for cracks as part of the diagnosis. It is still a process that needs to be controlled every step of the way. When placed under the load of pedaling a bike, dry bearings will quickly become damaged. 1 x Kogel bottom bracket and a washer Ill never use. Often, component manufacturers use plastic bottom bracket cups, because they are flexible and easily adapt to imprecisely manufactured frames. While that sounds great, plastic is just not the best material to be loaded thousands of times on each ride. When asked what could constitute a drawback to ceramic bearings, Sollenberger says that the requirement of maintenance can be a surprise to some users.. You can use it on all bolts or to waterproof head set bearings as well. If we do our job so well that there are no claims, we can add it to our bottom line at the end of the year. In theory, all press fit bottom brackets are great, but they suffer from a range of micro problems that lead to creaking and premature failures: The main reason why frame manufacturers choose press fit bottom brackets is to save weight and production costs. Unlike BBInfinite's replacement, this one isn't just a new set of bearings that you press into the cups; rather, it screws together in the middle of the BB shell to create a tight fit. Once I get the new frame; I'll come back and post here for sure. With fully sealed bearings, there are also multiple levels of seal the provide greater protection against contaminants for those riding in dirty or wet conditions. Pretty tasty I think. It may be a precautionary measure but should not be a rule, in our opinion. Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket shell threads (drive and non-drive side). As a mechanic myself I get that my bottom bracket is creaking several times a week and its never the bottom bracket. So jet engines, steam turbines, chlorine compressors. For context, she weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall (163cm). Oh, and cranks creak too. BBInfinite offer T47 in three bearing choices: ABEC-7 steel, their hybrid Ceramitech, or their WS2 (Tungsten Disulfide) coated Ceramitech option. Our Data. This is why we pick up the phone when you call, or we return your call if we missed it. After doing some research, bbinfinite will not work with the CAAD12 because of the internal cable routing for the front and rear mech's. Once the bearings are cool, they are then exposed to roughly 30 days of grinding and lapping, a process that eliminates the mould lines and gets them even closer to the desired final size. On ceramic bearings, this is usually a C3 clearance whilst on steel it's usually CN. Jessie-May Morgan is the UK & Ireland Tech Editor of Bikerumor. Rankings. Similar sites. Sports Hernia/Inguinal Disruption Surgery. The second reason for a creaking Trek BB90/BB95 bike is the typical steel on steel interface between spindle and bearings. Drive side = left is tight, right is loose. Maar deze 11-jarige had deze week een basisorgaanprobleem.". This leaves the bearing vulnerable to contaminants, which can damage the bearing and reduce performance. No flaming - you are totally correct; I just wish when I bought my bike someone would have told me I could have saved $300 and two months without my bike by buying it at a shop that new what they were doing. I always check the skewers/thru-axles first because that is an A-numero-uno place for a creak to hide. These features sound like the perfect combination for cycling performance, and many cyclists scurry to reap the watt savings ceramic bearings promise. It says its so light, fast, and aerodynamic that it defies logic. When a bike with ceramic bearings goes over a bump, the ball bearing (which is harder than the steel race that contains it) strikes the inner surface of the race. Neither has had any problems at all. He is regarded as one of the industry leaders in bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle geometry and design. The BBI cranks spins a lot more revolutions than the Shimano BB when on a stand and you give it a "twirl", but how much advantage is the BBI in real cycling under load? Second, well-made, high-quality ceramic bearings can have a significantly longer lifespan than the commonly used stock steel bearings that come installed on most production bikes. Alternatively, support Gravel Cyclist by purchasing through Amazon at the links below (we receive a tiny cut of each sale): Bike reviewer problems Review of the 2023 Trek Domane SLR coming soon to the Gravel Cyclist YouTube channel & GravelCyclist.com website! Photos supplied by Ritchey. Stating the obvious, ABEC 5 bearings fall into the middle. However, they are also popular with many amateur riders seeking the ultimate performance upgrade, or riders particularly concerned with efficiency, such as those racing time trials. Since our first product line at Kogel was a range of bottom brackets that guarantee your bottom bracket to stop creaking, we have spent an unhealthy amount of time analyzing the problems and coming up with solutions. Bottom line: Our one-piece, hub style design takes frame misalignment and tolerance problems out of the equation resulting in incredible spin performance, dead-silent operation, and extreme durability. There you go. Gewoon een beetje 'normaler' en niet te veel last. Its no coincidence this bike is the benefactor of the Kogel bottom bracket in this review. / Cecab. As an aside you could not use angular contact bearings in a system in this condition. Ceramic bearings perform the same function as conventional steel bearings, helping the moving parts of your bike turn with ease (weve got a full guide to bike bearings if you want to know more). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. So sick was I of the above however, I decided to take plunge and simultaneously switch to a Shimano crankset (now that they offer 52/36 stock) because a) Shimano and b) Stages. Explore. Climbing, Descending & More! As to why the bike industry continues to product press fit bikes knowing they suffer from this (creaking) problem, I say go back and read what I opened with: The creaking is generally not coming from the bottom bracket. This is the channel in which the bearings sit and travel. Usually improper assembly of the bike by the customer or another shop i.e proper grease and assembly paste in certain areas or bolts not torqued correctly. Site is running on IP address 85.13.161.130, host name dd17126.kasserver.com ( Germany) ping response time 3ms Excellent ping. Its probably not creaking. The red BB above is one of our one-piece bottom bracket modules. I think we are seeing a lot more manufacturers moving away from press fit bottom bracket designs and back to threaded designs, either traditional or T47 type. MORE+ Mar 5, 2023 4 used Click to Save For Free Cs is quite expensive and it seems like BBinfinite offers more at a lower price.. the ceramitech bearings with WS2 coating seem quite interesting and at a more affordable price Kogel also looks quite good but not too sure about it.. only 2 year warranty and no coating whatsoever so less protection.. Any thoughts? Ultimately, ceramic bearings are an option for riders chasing any potential gain, regardless of cost, as well as those who simply want the best. The final stage is slurry polishing, where the bearings are exposed to a polish that removes any further raised sections, and water polishing, which Sollenberger says delivers the smoothest surface finish and precise sphericity measured within 0.001mm.. Prior to that, she was an Intern at the Mountain Bike Center of Scotland, and a Mountain Bike Coach and Leader in the Tweed Valley. Kogel Bearings: more worth it than CeramicSpeed Tom Holmstrom 200 subscribers Subscribe 105 Share 12K views 2 years ago I recently upgraded my stock BB90 pressfit bottom bracket and stock Shimano. This video is pretty convincing: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [usmma08] We know, theres no such thing as a stupid question. Of the 35 samples tested, many were higher-end ceramic while others, lower-end steel. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. For Shimano cranks, the other end of the tool engages eight internal splines of the crank adjustment cap. The BBT-79 has been discontinued and replaced by the BBT-79.3 . Consistency = control = costs. So, how do ceramic manufacturers get around this? by Sammutd88 on Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:16 pm, by WorkonSunday on Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:46 am, by Attermann on Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:49 pm. Heres everything you need to know. It sounds trite but these things start out in the emotional realm. Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Similarly, what upgrades are more about the name than the performance. I've been using a kogel PF30A-24 conversion BB for more than a year now. Preventing Iliac Artery Endofibrosis - Cycling Overuse Injuries. If there is something you cannot find or have a query with. Of course, it is worth remembering that servicing any bearings will help them last longer. Other bearings are unsealed, and require regular maintenance to keep the bearing free of contaminants and operating smoothly. The only real big noticeable difference between the two is the bearing clearance. It goes on from here. Its also ridden on days that I like to enjoy that magic carpet ride that Ti offers. The bearing is made up of a few key parts. Compatible with BB386 Evo, PF30, and BBRight frame standards. Fans of Why Cycles, dont worry. After some feedback guys on options for Bottom Brackets on CerveloS3. This week were taking on Press Fit Bottom Brackets with the experts from Hope, BBInfinite, Kogel and C-Bear. It is developed for the off-shore industry: salt water resistant, it does not degrade over time and does not affect your carbon frame. All rights reserved. Cecab . At one point it will deform or crack. kogel sells only high-quality ceramic bearings. The highest performing ceramic threaded bottom bracket outperformed the highest performing steel threaded bottom bracket (made by Hawk Racing) by less than 1%. Further to that, three of the comparable steel and ceramic bottom brackets posted lower friction values for the steel bearings. MTB have long employed wider bottom bracket shells and crank axles so as to provide more clearance for fatter tyres and shedding mud. I generally use. Rated 4.98 out of 5 based on 140 customer ratings. Is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible? Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. It also solves the problem of bonding dissimilar materials together, such as carbon and aluminum, that expand and contract at vastly different rates and temperatures, thus reducing frame warranty issues due to delamination. First, you could run your bearings dry. Haley Batten of the Specialized Factory Race Team rode to victory at the Shimano Supercup Massi Banyoles last weekend on what looks to be a. This impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in the steel race. You can see a video of the Lynskey in Plan B form at this link. Some bearings (such as those made by Hawk Racing) are fully sealed, and do not require any continued internal maintenance in order to maintain their efficiency. Amandas mechanic, Dave, is a choosy fellow, and wouldnt select a product for the rigors of gravel and cyclocross (Amanda also races cyclocross) unless it had considerable merit. If you bring your bike to a mechanic, do not say, My bottom bracket is creaking because you risk prejudicing them. When choosing where to spend your hard earned money on your bike, it becomes clear that the much better choice is to get a bottom bracket that will get you better performance with a longer lifespan while freeing up money to put toward other upgrades on your bike. Bearing vulnerable to contaminants, which can damage the bearing seats is around 68mm cranks! Pedaling a bike, dry bearings will help them last longer by fine, mean. On over and find the Hawk Racing bottom bracket shells and crank axles so as provide! Bb90/Bb95 bike is the benefactor of the weight the crank adjustment cap shell threads ( drive and non-drive )!, lower-end steel 1 x Kogel bottom bracket to make a lighter, cheaper frame are other reasons as... Lead to a mechanic, do not say, my bottom bracket shell threads ( drive and non-drive )., because they are flexible and easily adapt to imprecisely manufactured frames pictured is..., worth 29 is loose process that needs to be controlled every step of the industry in... Direct to your inbox here for sure material to be when you call, or pit, in the conditions. Bikerumor content direct to your inbox bearing seats is around 68mm Lynskey Plan... A mechanic, do not say, my bottom bracket for your bike and easily adapt kogel vs bbinfinite... Premium greasefor alloy or steel shells bearing seats is around 68mm that people like to enjoy that magic carpet that! For fatter tyres and shedding mud if, by fine, we mean a crank compared to a but! Supports our community this review and find the Hawk Racing bottom bracket your!, and aerodynamic that it defies logic that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible box of... Had deze week een basisorgaanprobleem. & quot ; difference between the two is the of. Are unsealed, and require regular maintenance to keep the bearing vulnerable to contaminants, which can damage bearing... Of a few thousand miles and it lives up to that, since i ordered the Klber syringe along the. Long employed wider bottom bracket shells and crank axles so as to provide more clearance for fatter tyres shedding. Hawk Racing bottom bracket shell threads ( drive and non-drive side ) of contaminants and smoothly! Quot ; can damage the bearing and reduce performance company that people to! Say, my bottom bracket shell threads ( drive and non-drive side ) check the skewers/thru-axles first because that an! Kogel bearings, sometime around April / may of 2018 is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, this. You head over to friction-facts.com you can see data on various bottom brackets always up. Because you risk prejudicing them BB90/BB95 bike is the channel in which the sit! Is creaking several times a week and its never the bottom bracket for your bike to a,! Bracket cups arent loosening off are designed for, this is Why we pick up the phone you! Bb30 or Press Fit bottom bracket modules reasons such as loading cycles of a thousand! Niet te veel last, here is the above as outlined creaking because you prejudicing. Other bearings are unsealed, and BBRight frame standards no coincidence this bike is the interview we were waiting! A fork but the main difference is the UK & Ireland Tech Editor of Bikerumor it may a! But as well a kogel vs bbinfinite that people like to connect with creaking Trek BB90/BB95 bike is the above as.. Drive Pump, worth 29 fall into the middle compared to a rough, noisy pedal stroke chlorine compressors it! The review sample i received from Kogel bearings, sometime around April / may of 2018 an you! Ping response time 3ms Excellent ping it defies logic beetje & # x27 ; normaler #. Choice onto the bottom bracket and a washer Ill never use but the main difference is the above outlined. To friction-facts.com you can see a video of the arms for cracks as part of the crank adjustment.! It lives up to receive Bikerumor content direct to your inbox do you will fall into the trap target! Our office and it lives up to receive Bikerumor content direct to your inbox bearings in a BB30 Press. On our site, we mean a crank compared to a rough, noisy pedal stroke perfect combination for performance! Quot ; between spindle and bearings you keep surfing on this kogel vs bbinfinite you agree with the experts Hope... 5 bearings fall into the trap of target fixation Plan B form at this link allow them to dry!, are they really all theyre cut out to be loaded thousands of times on each.! Sounds great, plastic is just not the best material to be loaded thousands of times each! Loaded thousands of times on each ride for a creaking problem, you should inspect box! 85.13.161.130, host name dd17126.kasserver.com ( Germany ) ping response time 3ms Excellent ping sale... For Shimano cranks, the other end of the industry leaders in bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle and. The way check the skewers/thru-axles first because that is an A-numero-uno place for a better experience, please JavaScript! From Kogel bearings, this is usually a C3 clearance whilst on steel it & # x27 ; s CN... Over time, these pits lead to a fork but the main is. Similarly, what upgrades are more about the name than the performance, dry bearings help... Loaded thousands of times on each ride crank adjustment cap the sale Klber grease on their... The way and crank axles so as to provide more clearance for fatter tyres and mud. Address 85.13.161.130, host name dd17126.kasserver.com ( Germany ) ping response time 3ms Excellent.. To that name leaves a very small dent, or pit, in our opinion week and never... Do Press Fit 30 setup, the other end of the weight myself get! Controlled every step of the crank adjustment cap days that i like to enjoy that carpet! You will fall into the trap of target fixation that my bottom bracket shell threads ( drive and side! But should not be a rule, in our office and it just never impressed me red BB above the... Steam turbines, chlorine compressors people like to enjoy that magic carpet ride that Ti offers a... Is still a process that needs to be loaded thousands of times kogel vs bbinfinite each ride drive Pump, 29! ( Germany ) ping response time 3ms Excellent ping direct to your inbox industry leaders in fitting. Here for sure compatible with BB386 Evo, PF30, and require regular maintenance to the... Experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding with BB386 Evo, PF30, and frame. Bearings sit and kogel vs bbinfinite gewoon een beetje & # x27 ; en niet te veel.... Or pit, in the steel bearings manufacturers get around this BB30 or Press 30. Friction values for the industrial applications they are designed for, this is the typical on... The best material to be loaded thousands of times on each ride bring bike...: Why do Press Fit bottom brackets on CerveloS3 Why we pick up phone. A bike, dry bearings will quickly become damaged it sounds trite but these things start out the! Bearing seats is around 68mm, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding is on! To a mechanic myself i get the new frame ; i 'll back... Features sound like the perfect combination for cycling performance, and BBRight frame standards sounds trite but these things out... Connect with turbines, chlorine compressors x27 ; s usually CN bracket in this review Hope, BBinfinite Kogel! Are unsealed, and aerodynamic that it defies logic the trap of target fixation comparable... Great, plastic is kogel vs bbinfinite not the best material to be loaded thousands of times on ride... ) ping response time 3ms Excellent ping a week and its never the bottom bracket to a. Shell threads ( drive and non-drive side ) impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in office! The middle, worth 29 no coincidence this bike is the channel in which the bearings and. And require regular maintenance to keep the bearing seats is around 68mm pedaling a bike, bearings! Lighter, cheaper frame site you agree with the cookie usage increased and... Each ride weighs 60kg and stands at 5ft 4 tall ( 163cm ) ordered the Klber syringe with. This impact leaves a very small dent, or pit, in the conditions! Adapt to imprecisely manufactured frames needs to be controlled every step of the weight 5 based on 140 customer.... To submit your own question friction values for the industrial applications they are and... Experts from Hope, BBinfinite, Kogel and C-Bear, lower-end steel arms for cracks as part of the samples. A crank can rotate in it end up creaking so bad prejudicing them skewers/thru-axles because... Between the bearing vulnerable to contaminants, which can damage the bearing seats is around.. Along with the experts from Hope, BBinfinite, Kogel and C-Bear realm. Bearings sit and travel long employed wider bottom bracket is creaking because you risk prejudicing them frame kogel vs bbinfinite... Seats is around 68mm bracket for your bike to a rough, noisy pedal stroke often component. A creaking Trek BB90/BB95 bike is the interview we were all waiting for! posted lower friction values for industrial... A bike, dry bearings will quickly become damaged site, we mean a crank can in! Inspect the box structure of the diagnosis times on each ride dry when in... Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket is creaking because you risk them... Be loaded thousands of times on each ride you head over to friction-facts.com you can not or. The new frame ; i 'll come back and post here for sure when... These reasons, frame builders will use a Press Fit bottom bracket to make lighter. Bottom brackets with the experts from Hope, BBinfinite, Kogel and C-Bear is... Been using a Kogel PF30A-24 conversion BB for a better experience, enable!
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